First off, congratulations to everyone who participated in (or had to sit out for) the kill. You guys definitely deserved it, and you continue to prove why we’re one of the most efficient and skilled raiding guilds in the world (in addition to being a PvP powerhouse). Nicely done.
However, on a semi-related note, I’d like to take a moment to criticize WoWProgress for being a wildly inaccurate website for measuring overall guild progress. Hopefully, due to our rank, this won’t come off as mere whining.
To the maintainer of WoWProgress: Why are you valuing achievements over boss kills? It should never, ever be that way. Kill dates should always be the default method for defining prospective guild ranks. Allow me to demonstrate why your ranking is flawed at best, if not borderline absurd.
Paragon, ranked world 4th during Ulduar, managed to nab the world first Anub’arak kill. They are currently ranked #13 behind a guild called The Fallen (who are at #12). This is a problem, because The Fallen was ranked world #234 during Ulduar, and also killed Anub’arak 53rd in the world.
Why is The Fallen higher? Because of idiotic, pointless achievements. Killing Anub’arak the very first week he was available had to have been an incalculably harder feat than simply getting a 50 attempts run. I am sorry to be so demeaning, but anyone who puts stock in the validity of WoWProgress is wholly ignorant. I would honestly prefer that we be ranked 22nd for our Anub’arak kill than 13th for our Tribute to Insanity. Fix your site, Kernel, and I’ll climb off my soapbox.
Big Grats to Nurfed on Insanity
buff volley
The minimalist hello kitty ui displayed here with hello kitty 5 second rule timer on the mana bar and hello kitty sexy map frame
Nerf mages
no1 cares
A+ on the WP story, srsly, kill dates > 10 achievement points.
you fookers got your achieve and our toc instance locked-up, in fact our mains are still locked in there… way to break wow and ruin it for the rest of us
The fallen grant the 50 run before paragon that all
and yes french guild own tyou AHAHHA
IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?!
English owned you though, champ.
Even french first with 50 of US guild
All of this French talk is making me horny.
Countries that have won World Cups:
1:Brazil -5- 1958, 1962, 1970, 1994, 2002
2:Germany -3- 1954, 1974, 1990
2:Italy -4- 1934, 1938, 1982,2006
4:Argentina -2- 1978, 1986
4:Uruguay -2- 1930,1950
6:France -1- 1998
So let’s say France beats Brazil in the finals in 2010, should we say Brazil is the champion? I mean they obviously were better in t8.
….
A more accurate comparison would be to say that xxx team was the ultimate world champion because they had the largest margin of victory in their championship game.
Seems like you really stuck your foot in your mouth with that soccer analogy
Can we give that guys post the boot?
This thread is goalden
I think the purpose of Wowprogress is to rank the order of the best guilds, not simply the order of boss kills. These achievements carry so much weight because they are far more difficult to accomplish and represent a entirely new tier of difficulty. As of this morning I see 193 heroic kills of Anub world-wide and 22 Tributes to Insanity to offer a comparison. Granted, I agree world firsts be worth more, but maybe they already are.
And a guild that was world 53rd Anub’arak and world 250th in Ulduar is clearly better than a guild that was world 1st Anub’arak, world 2nd Alone in the Darkness, and world 4th Ulduar.
Getting that 50 kill achievement a week sooner makes them the better guild. Right?
You can cherrypick all you like, but I think overall the system is fairly accurate. I think it’s fairly contradicting to say “Getting that 50 kill achievement a week sooner makes them the better guild. Right?” considering world rankings of bosskills are done on that system. I’m more impressed with a guild that accomplishes the most difficult achievement first personally.
That’s my point. It is the most difficult achievement. Achievements should not affect rankings other than to determine kill dates (or potentially to differentiate guilds with equivalent scores).
If you believe that getting the 50 kill achievement is somehow more difficult than killing Anub’arak the very first week he was available, you are simply not in touch with end-game raiding. And your statement of, “These achievements carry so much weight because they are far more difficult to accomplish and represent a entirely new tier of difficulty.” only seems to support this assessment (which is in no way intended as an insult, mind you).
Unless I am misunderstanding, you are purporting Tier 9 to be more challenging than Tier 8 simply because it is newer and should follow what you assume to be a logical progression in difficulty. Unfortunately, this is simply not the case with WoW raiding.
who the fuck uses the word purporting? deek you are a true scumbag.
This is a problem, because The Fallen was ranked world #234 during Ulduar, and also killed Anub’arak 53rd in the world.
>
Since my guild seems to be involved i would add that :
We were ranked among the top 20 on Kil’Jaeden when Paragon was barely alive.
Without a 0,26% wipe we would have been top 20 on anub too.
We did not complain.
From the beginning we focused on having the safer & most repeatable strategies because our goal was clearly that tribute, Paragon focused on getting to the 1st kill as fast as they could.
2 different approaches, each one deserved its reward i guess.
The point is that what Paragon did was vastly more difficult than what your guild did (or mine, for that matter). The rankings should reflect that, and they simply do not. Yes, I am even considering the fact that Paragon abused Holy Wrath — they were still only one of two guilds to execute well enough to down him on week one.
Please understand that I am in no way intentionally belittling your guild, so I hope you do not take offense to being used as an example. But why even bother with a ranking site when it’s clear the values assigned to accomplishments are utterly arbitrary? The whole site is completely subject to the creator’s whims, with no real regard for logic, fairness, accuracy, or consistency.
“If you believe that getting the 50 kill achievement is somehow more difficult than killing Anub’arak the very first week he was available, you are simply not in touch with end-game raiding.”
Please, be fair.. Mass Soulstoning (blah blah clever use of game mechanisms blah blah), Holy Wrath perma-stunning (ooh Hot Fixed !), AoE Silencing FoK for Shadowstrike with insane DPS (We also use it), mass class stacking (bring 4 Paladins and phase 2 is trivial event for blind people). We (The Fallen) never use Mass Soulstoning, didn’t have 4 paladins in raid for Anub, etc. etc. We had lost MANY attempts on Heroic Anub the first week with the ID Raid lock bug ( and the Hot Fix didn’t helped us) and no Game Master helped us.. We have a nice rank in EdC 10 hero mode with 3 groups (we’re 30/35 actives raiders, and mainly we can raid only about 8pm to midnight), not with a “optimal-make-the-achieve-group”. So we’re happy to see our work and fairness (Only one SS in our first 50/50 EdC10) and.. rank.
Our progress in Ulduar wasn’t very good ? We haven’t the time like some Top Ten guild to spend in raid, but our ranking on Wowprogress is slipping because we didn’t make the YS.0 which “lock” the progress.. Yes, Ulduar was perfectly tuned, nearly 0 changes in progress.. Oh wait! They fucked the time we spend on Mimiron (but also buffed some HM, did you forget it ?), with the 4th changes they made on it. Even a guild who spend 3/4 hours on the HM was able ti kill it in a few attempt with this change..
New PTR build is out, achievement also.. No Realms first with limited attempts, “huge playtime / brute force” guilds can rejoice.
PS: bring 3.2.2 in the EdC progress was a “nice” idea from Blizzard too..
You mad that they (Stars/Paragon) beat everyone out on an encounter and outthought the fight design bro? If it wasn’t implemented right that isn’t their fault…. they just used mechanics that were not properly tested against it. Thats a development oversight and not the communities fault if two guilds rush to try and coordinate their strat around it. Thats what it takes to be “world first”. That kind of shit is the norm for all sorts of first kills. If they hotfixed the way block works with the adds would you disregard every guild that uses block value stacking on one tank? I mean if you’re going to disregard the first 2 world kills because they were “cheaters” you might as well consider that as well because I can guarantee you it was not the intended way the fight was meant to be done.
Game masters never help you because you aren’t cutting edge enough to be the first ones to actually report and see the bugs in the . Theres no shame in that… its just the truth of it.
Then you go on with poor defense of your Ulduar “ranking” on the site by saying you weren’t higher because you didn’t kill yogg0 forever? No shit you weren’t higher then. Don’t play time off like its an excuse for not getting it post nerf until way after the fact.
Get over yourself. Fuck.
Shinji, nothing in your post had any relevance to the matter at hand — it was simply a parade of excuses for your shortcomings in other aspects of raiding. Understand that I am not attacking your guild; in fact, I honestly do not even care that it exists (again, not intended as an insult). The issue is that Wowprogress is a poor ranking site, and your juxtaposition with Paragon merely serves as a prime example of that assertion.
i remember when our guild didnt give a fuck about public image
Greetings comrades.
The article is very professionally written. I actually enjoy reading http://www.nurfed.com, which is rare for gaming websites.
The wowprogress weighting issue you mention is a symptom of the whole “let’s weight each acheivement/kill based on some subjective criteria” approach.
Have you looked at other guild ranking sites such as guildox.com and guildprogress.com which seem to take a simpler yet effective approach?